Zoning Board

December 17, 1996 (Hearing)

Zoning Board Members Present: T. Colucci, Chairman, Walter Horowski, Wilma Herndon, Linda Nemet, Brad Childs

Also Present: Mr. & Mrs. Lew Hayslett, Mr. & Mrs. Robert Cornell, Administrator Dan Weir

Purpose of meeting: to review code for: Lew Hayslett for yard variance required for construction of a personal storage warehouse.

L. Hayslett - A year ago May I bought the property. During the process of buying the property I inquired to Dan Weir about using the property for more mini-storages. He notified me on the facts that were required. Also we discussed the possibility of changing the deed of that property to go in with mini-storage, but we did not do it. We need 117 feet left from the house and that would give me seventy-two hundred fifty-four feet we need for the lot. 72 hundred is required for the lot for zoning.

D. Weir - The lot that is there is a real narrow lot, it is only 62 feet wide. The average building lot in the Village is at least 75 feet wide.

L. Hayslett - So, we have proposed with the Zoning boards approval a building of six thousand and eight square feet building. I feel the building we already have are an asset to the Village. We have paid about four thousand three hundred dollars in real estate taxes in the last year plus income tax. I think this is for the good of the property and the Village. The property is commercial property already. If I have understood right, commercial property in the Village you need to be five feet from the property line. We are asking the side yard according to the zoning is twenty feet, we are asking to pick-up four more feet.

T. Colucci - The five members of the board are not professionals. Our job is to help the Zoning Commission on making decisions for Zoning Appeals. We use common sense, no law tells us what to do. It is a matter of judgement on all parties.

Mrs. Cornell - First of all Lew, I think Zoning Laws state for a resident at least for commercial property you have to stay forty feet away from us because we are a resident. That is not the thing of it, you said you would come no further than our picket fence. Which would leave our small backyard open. With the variance the fence will come one foot from our line. There is no angle from our side yard or back yard that we will not see that building. We have no problems if you just let us have our small backyard open, you can build anything in the back.

L. Hayslett - Mrs. Cornell you said if we build a privacy fence that would be okay.

Mrs. Cornell - I did not know what else to do. I did not understand the laws or had anyone to talk to.

L. Nemet - Do you know how much feet back you are asking about?

Mrs. Cornell - Our fence is about forty feet back from our garage, and that is where we asked him to have the building stop at.

L. Hayslett - If I do that I will not have very much of a building.

D. Weir - I think there has been there has been some confusion in regards to the setback that is aloud for personal storage units under normal conditions in a commercial district a five foot side yard is acceptable for any business. In a B1 Business district you need a 40 foot front yard, five foot side yard and a 20 foot rear. Under what Lew is proposing the building would actually be part of the existing buildings that are there. That would all be considered one lot even though it is made up of three lots. The building would have a Cedar Street address. He would have normally had to have a twenty-five foot rear yard, so the variance would be nine feet in the rear. If the building would have a Chestnut Street address and be separate from the other buildings he would have had to have a twenty foot side yard requirement and he would be going for a four foot variance. Under another section that tells what permissive uses are, there is another section on storage units that require the side yard distance shall be twenty feet exactly where residential use and then it would be forty feet if you take all the requirements in there it narrows Lew's property to a two foot wide strip down the center to build on. It is a very complicated situation because of the special requirement, it is a tough zoning call.

T. Colucci - Things are changing around Jefferson, all the property zoned around you is commercial.

W. Horowski - Is there anything wrong with making it smaller?

L. Hayslett - Before I could answer that question I would have to have her actually stake off how far it would go. I would have to have accurate measurements.

Mrs. Cornell - There is people in and out of there all the time, there is a lot of traffic.

L. Hayslett - The basic lot will be fenced in. So we will not be having problems with kids because they would be trapped in with the fence.

Mrs. Cornell - What is the actual variance?

D. Weir - It would be twenty-four foot on the South side and it then would be twenty-four foot on the North side..

Mrs. Cornell - Then there is actually is not enough property there. You wouldn't be willing to exchange your 30 foot building for forty-five feet of storage.

L. Hayslett - I am saying before I say anything, I would have to measure before I could commit myself. You will still see the building unless I put up a fence.

Mrs. Cornell - If you put up a fence, it will close us in with the fence.

D. Weir - We are going to run into this more and more of this, mainly because all we have left for commercial property is redeveloped, there is no vacant left for development. We will have business next to residential houses.

L. Nemet - Where is the land zoned commercial?

D. Weir - Commercial actually runs from Beech all the way to Mulberry street. It varies, some places it is four hundred fifty feet most of the lots are three hundred feet.

W. Horowoski - My suggestion would be that Lew work out something with the Cornell's and come back . I can not see myself approving this, the variance is too much.

D. Weir - You are asking for basically twenty-four feet.

L. Nemet - The reality of that is this is a piece of commercial property that is waiting to be developed.

Mrs. Cornell - We are residential and by rights he can not come four feet from our property.

Mr. Cornell - How far does he have to stay off the property line?

D. Weir - The Zoning Board of Appeals could make that determination. Under normal conditions the business can be built from five feet from the property line.

T. Colucci - Let me ask a question, Mr. and Mrs. Cornell, if Mr. Hayslett's property fit within the zoning law and did not have to come to this hearing, how would you feel?

Mrs. Cornell - If it would go the length of our property I would feel bad.

T. Colucci - You really do not want a building there?

Mrs. Cornell - I do not want the building in that forty feet by our back yard and we do not want a privacy fence behind our picket fence. We want just the picket fence to our house. All we ask is just that forty some feet so we have an open yard.

L. Hayslett - The curbs will be set up so the water will stay on our property and keep people from sliding into the fence in the winter. They will be within thirteen feet from the line.

W. Herndon - Is there any other way you could put the building further East or any other way you could appease their feelings?

L. Hayslett - No, not really because of the drainage and the water.

W. Herndon - We have never done a variance of this size before.

D. Weir - There is a lot of confusion under normal conditions. The section that provides for set backs, if Lew's building would face Cedar Street under normal circumstances it would be twenty-five foot set back rear yard and five foot side yard. If he was going to let the building be a Chestnut Street address the North line would be a side yard which would allow for a five foot set back. In the Zoning Code it is really confusing how they have it set up. His building applies to special set backs, which requires his side yard to be twenty feet for a storage facility. Except for where there is residential use it is forty feet. It goes according to what the property is to be used for. Basically what we are looking at, Lew needs a forty foot set back from the North line of his property which is next to the Cornell's. He is seeking a sixteen foot set back, so he is actually requesting a twenty-four foot variance.

W. Horowoski - From what I can see the main purpose of the board is to protect the property owner - if we would allow it there could be a kickback (consequences) and the board could be sued.

B. Childs - We are supposed to be 50/50 and our main objective is for what is best for the Village and property and work something out for everyone. If Lew puts up a nice privacy fence no one will know the buildings are there.

Mrs. Cornell - There still will be the storage units on the other side, traffic in and out. We should have some rights.

L. Nemet - This is still commercial property.

D. Weir - The powers of the Zoning board are to interrupt the zoning codes and decide appeals where it is alleged that there is a error and order the required decision made by the Zoning Inspector and permit variances and regulate the Zoning Code with reasonable and sensible arrangements of buildings on a lot.

L. Hayslett - Are you saying if I took forty foot of the building I could get it approved Mr. Cornell, the Zoning Board would give me the approvals.

Mr. Cornell - It would be from the fence, I really do not know the distance I am not sure of the footage.

L. Nemet - What would the increments be, you can not just say I will take forty feet off.

L. Hayslett - If I do this will the Cornell's accept this? I would have to come back with new figures.

T. Colucci - Why don't we vote on why we are here today, on what we have there is only one person next to his property that does not want the variance. There is other people next to the property and they are not hear, so they are not against it.

Mrs. Cornell - We are they only ones that will be effected with the variance.

L. Hayslett - I would consider taking the forty feet off, but I would have to look at it.

W. Herndon - My concern is that this would be a twenty-four foot variance and we are changing zoning. I suggest come up with another plan.

L. Nemet - Lew wants the new section to be treated just like the other buildings.

Motion by Linda Nemet to accept the variance as it is written.

2nd by Childs

Roll: Nemet, yea; Horowski, nay; Herndon, nay; Childs, yea; Colucci, yea.

Meeting adjourn.

Respectfully Submitted,

Patricia A. Fisher,
Clerk/Treasurer

Transcript to the Zoning Board Hearing
December 17, 1996
Held Jefferson Village Offices

Zoning Board Members: T. Colucci, Chairman, Walter Horowski, Wilma Herndon, Linda Nemet, Brad Childs.

Also Present: Mr. & Mrs. Lew Hayslett, Mr. & Mrs. Cornell, Administrator Dan Weir,

Clerk - Treasurer Patricia Fisher.

(1) T. Colucci - Does everybody know everybody here? Introduced the Zoning Board of appeals

(2) Linda Nemet, Walter Horowski, Wilma Herndon, and Brad Childs. The Zoning Board is

(3) selected by the Mayor. We are here tonight for a variance. (Tape is unclear due to people

(4) people talking over each other). Mrs. Cornell - I know everyone here. T. Colucci - We are

(5) here to discuss a variance across from Tom Abernathy's. Mrs. Cornell - Do you know Norma

(6)Dvorak , well that is her son and his wife. T. Colucci - Are they living there? Mrs. Cornell-

(7)I don't know where they live but they have the property behind them. T. Colucci - Oh, they

(8)are actually behind Tom's actually over in the Residential area. I know that Wilma was over

(9)to look over at the property (Unclear) What I what like to do at this time is have Lew in his

(10)own words give us a little dissertation of what he would like to do here and then we will take

(11) it from there. Lew Hayslett - Well, I will start at the beginning around last year around

(12)May I bought the property. So, in the next couple of weeks while we were negotiating with

(13)her on the price, I contacted Dave or Dan I am sorry, I contacted Dan to see if the back part

(14)of this lot could be used for more mini storage, he said he thought it could but he would have

(15)to study the Zoning Codes. He got back with me through a letter at a latter date, with the

(16)facts that were required. We discussed the possibility of changing the deed for that property

(17)in with the mini storage, but we didn't do it. So, as it went on, we rented the house,

(18) (Unclear) 117 ft left of the house would give me the seven-two hundred and fifty four feet

(19) needed for a lot. Right Dan, we need seventy two hundred. Dan Weir - The lot that is

(20) there now is a real narrow lot it is only 62 ft wide and the average building lot in the Village is

(21)75 feet. Lew Hayslett - So then with 196 feet left if I just took the minimum for the house.

(22) So, we have purposed with the Zoning Boards approval building a the six thousand and eight

(23)square foot building, and here are the drawings. I really feel that the three buildings that my

(24)wife and I have are an asset to the Village. We have added to the tax base of the Village, we

(25)have a total of nineteen thousand square feet down there now, last year we paid over forty

(26)three hundred dollars in tax real estate, plus the normal income tax too. Taking that into

(27)consideration, probably this year the same property will probably be over five thousand

(28)dollars because of the appraisal . I think with the information I have gave you, you can

(29)understand see that I am not trying to push anything through, I just think that its for the good

(30)of the property and the Village and will give something to the area that is needed. The

(31)property is commercial property we are not asking for a zoning change. If I have understood

(32)right, (Unclear) commercial property can be built within five feet of the property line. We are

(33)asking for that side yard according to the Zoning is twenty feet, we are asking to pick up four

(34)more feet. It's a commercial road, it is in Jefferson. The demand is going to be for all

(35)commercial property. What has happened in the last two years, in town at the South and the

(36)North. (Unclear). I will answer anybody's questions to the best of my knowledge. T.

(37)Colucci - One comment I like to make at every meeting, the five members of the Zoning

(38)Board are not professionals, just citizens, our job is to act as the proper, to help the Village

(39)make a decision, we use common sense, no laws tell us what to do and our judgement for

(40)what is best for the Village . (Unclear) Open for discussion. Walt Horowski - Correction, our

(41)job is to protect the property owner, you did not mention , that is our job. That is why we

(42)grant the variance or we don't, is to protect the a joining property, that is our main job. Well

(43)look it up in the bi-laws. Mrs. Cornell - Can I go ahead and say something here? Can I go

(44)ahead an say something. Well anytime. Mrs. Cornell - First of all Lew, I think that the

(45)zoning laws for a residence on a commercial property, you have to stay forty feet away from

(46)them. And a letter was written to you on that. And I am sure you got the letter, because we

(47)are a residence not a business you have to stay 40 feet away from our property line.. But that

(48)is not the thing of it. Last summer you said that you would not come no farther then our

(49)picket fence, which would leave us our small backyard open. We agreed then, we gave you a

(50)variance in the back when you wanted it with no problem. We gave you the four foot

(51)variance, there was no problem there , then you said you would leave us our little back yard

(52)open, otherwise this fence will come one foot up to our line, well up to thirty eight feet from

(53)the back of our house. There will be solid cement that is a driveway and then the building.

(54)There is no window on our backyard where we won't see the buildings, we would not even

(55)be able to sit on our porch without looking at them. All summer long there are people in and

(56)out, there are kids going in and out with their roller blades or their bicycles. Now, we have

(57)no problem if you would just let us keep our little back yard open, and you can build anything

(58)you want in the back , we have no argument with that. We are willing to go along with that.

(59)You were denied this by the Zoning Inspector, you were denied. That is why you went to the

(60)Zoning Board of Appeals, so you could build right up to our house. We are not trying to put

(61)anyone out of business, you can build your building back there, just give us our little back

(62)yard. So we can have a little privacy in our backyard , so we can work in the back yard, so we

(63)can sit on the porch, that is all were asking for. And as you had promised us last summer.

(64)Lew Hayslett- I don't think I ever promised you anything.

(65) Mrs. Cornell - Oh, yes you did, we were standing right by that fence, and I said to you just as

(66)long as you let us have our back yard and you don't go beyond our picket fence and you said

(67)that was no problem. Lew Hayslett - Well. Mrs. Cornell - So, this comes as quite a shock to

(68)me, I'll admit it, it was a shock. Lew Hayslett - Last week when I discussed this you - Mrs.

(69)Cornell - Tell him, tell him I was in tears I could not even talk with Dan. Lew Hayslett -You

(70)said if I build a privacy fence - Mrs. Cornell - Yes, because I did not know what else to do, I

(71)had no idea what the Zoning Board was, I had no idea what the Appeals Board was, Dan was

(72)gone, I couldn't ask him, I thought maybe Mr. Abernathy knew, I asked him, nobody was

(73)there, I had nobody to ask, I had no idea that this would happen. Walter Howoski - We had

(74)no idea either till yesterday, that was like tampering with a jury. Mrs. Cornell - There are no

(75)rules there are no regulations, that we could, we did try to talk and try to explain how we felt

(76)about this. I have no qualms with you building behind our backyard, you will still have plenty

(77)of room to build a large building back there all I ask is that you give us that little back yard

(78)for privacy. Linda Nemet - (Unclear ) Mrs. Cornell - I don't know the exact footage is.

(79)Mrs. Cornell - Our property about 531 feet. Walter Horowski - The property, about

(80)(Unclear) Linda Nemet - (Unclear) Mrs. Cornell - It runs all the way back along side Lew's

(81)property. Our fence is about 40 feet back from our garage. Linda Nemet - (Unclear)

(82)Walter Horowski - Is there anything wrong with that Lew? Lew Hayslett - Well, I don't have

(83)any building to build at forty feet. Mrs. Cornell - You would still have one hundred and some

(84)feet to build on Lew, isn't that enough, over a hundred foot building you can still build behind

(85)there. Lew Hayslett - Well, we misunderstand where your yard is. Mrs. Cornell - My

(86)backyard. Lew Hayslett - I know, a whole backyard as far as that goes. Mrs Cornell - No,

(87)we divided our whole yard with the rest of the property with the picket fence, flowers and

(88)everything behind that is vacant. The kids may play in it when they come on picnics, they

(89)play baseball and things like that. But the yard that we are in, everyday during the summer

(90)either one of us or both of us, all the time. Lew Hayslett - Last week you said if I build a

(91)privacy fence - Mrs. Cornell - I am sorry, you said to me have I ever lied to you, you didn't

(92)lie to me but you did not come out and tell me the truth. Lew Hayslett - I have always tried

(93)to tell you the truth. Mrs. Cornell - You said all I am asking for (Unclear) which would put us

(94)right up to the garage. Lew Hayslett - (Unclear) No, no off of the property line, off of my

(95)site property, its not over three or four )feet. Mrs. Cornell - Remember that when that house

(96)was build, that was not commercial property, I don't think, that was all residential. There

(97)was two big homes down there, real old homes that were tore down. Lew Hayslett - I am not

(98)requesting that you move your (Unclear) I am just saying that it's like three our four feet off

(99)of my property line and I have nothing against that. But I think that your trying to stop

(100)something - Mrs. Cornell - I am not trying to stop anything, I mean you can't build a

(101)hundred and twenty foot building, instead it had to be a hundred eighty feet. It would be

(102)like looking at a solid wall. Lew Hayslett - I don't think you would see anything with the

(103)privacy fence. Mrs. Cornell - You are going to put a privacy fence all the way down. Lew

(104)Hayslett - No. You had no objections to what we did before. Mrs. Cornell - No, because as

(105)I told you, I did not understand what was going on, when this came to me I was so upset, I

(106)couldn't understand what was going on. I had no idea. Lew Hayslett - I can to see you to

(107)explain it to you. Mrs. Cornell - Only after, after the day I went around asking people what

(108)we could do about the variance, what do we do about it. And it was within the hour so you

(109)came down, so I know someone must have told you. Lew Hayslett - No, nobody told me

(110)anything. Mrs. Cornell - When you wanted the other variance, you came right to us. We

(111)said fine and we didn't even come to the Zoning Board to fight it. We said that is fine you

(113)had our support. We just gave it to you with no hassle no nothing and I don't think it to

(114)much to give us forty something feet. Lew Hayslett - (Unclear) Dan Weir - I think there has

(115)been some confusion in regards to the setbacks that are allowed for personal storage unit .

(116)Under normal condition in a commercial district a five foot side yard is acceptable for any

(117)business, that is allowed a five foot side yard. Walter Horowski - You mean you have to

(118)stay five feet off the line. Dan Weir - Right. That's under laws. In a B1 Business District

(119)you need a forty foot front yard, five foot side yard and twenty five foot rear yard. Dan Weir

(120)- Under the situation that Lew is purposing, the building would actually be part of the

(121)existing buildings that are there. That would all be considered one lot, even though it is

(122)made up of three different lots it is purposed as one lot. The buildings basically having a

(123)Cedar Street address along with the other building he would have normally had to had a

(124)twenty five foot rear yard, so his variance would have been nine feet, nine foot variance to

(125)the rear. If the building were to have a Chestnut Street address, if he would have positioned

(126)the buildings so it was on the one lot separate from the other buildings then he would have a

(127)twenty foot side yard requirement and he would have be going for a four foot variance.

(128)Under a whole other section in here, that allows, tells you what permissive uses are in each

(129)of the districts, there is a whole segment on storage units. What it says here the side yard

(130)distance shall be twenty feet except where it abuts a residential zone in use, in which case

(131)the distance shall be forty feet. So what that actually does , if you take that forty foot and

(132)you put all those requirements in there, it narrows down that piece of property to a two foot

(133)wide strip down the center that could be built on. Walter Horowski - Then what are we

(134)arguing it for? Dan Weir - That is kind of how it is here, extremely complicated situation.

(135)Mainly because of the size of the lot that exists now and the increase in the set backs and

(136)that one particular special requirement that are in the zoning codes. For whatever reason

(137)there there, I don't know. T. Colucci - It is a tough zoning call . You people talk about

(138)looking out your backyard and you'll see a building, I admit it looks different. (Unclear)

(139)Mrs. Cornell - But the wooden fence was there when Toukonens were there. And Vances

(140)put up the fence only because Toukonens were there. T. Colucci - I am trying to tell you

(141)that things change, the Village of Jefferson, commercial. Mrs. Cornell - Of course they

(142)change. T. Colucci - And if you are looking ahead someday someone will make you a

(143)substantial offer. It t is your choice to sell it. Mrs. Cornell- We will never move from there.

(144)T. Colucci - That is great. Mrs. Cornell - I mean it would be like a solid wall going down

(145)the whole side of our house, there is people in and out Mrs. Cornell - there all the time. Big

(146)vans little vans, one time there was even a bunch of motorcycles over there. People think

(147)that there isn't much traffic there, but we have lived there ever since the buildings went up.

(148)We know, the backyard is where we have our family, we have picnics. I am not trying to

(149)put Lew out of business. All I am asking for is that forty some feet. Walter Horowski - Is

(150)there anything wrong with that? Lew Hayslett - Before I could give an answer I would have

(151)to have to have her actually stake off how far I could build before I could say yes or no.

(152)Mrs. Cornell - Lew you know where the picket fence is, my goodness you put The post in

(153)for us. Lew Hayslett - No, I don't know measurement wise. Mrs. Cornell - There is a lot

(154)of traffic, there is people in all the time. The other day Lew said there was no traffic, it

(155)was dark and there were two people in there one was loading lumber and the other one I

(156)don't know what the other one was unloading. But they are. (Unclear - three people

(157)talking at once) Lew Hayslett - Can I make one more statement. The basic lot will be

(158)fenced in, if your talking kids, we have had problems with the kids, because they like to get

(159)down there on the roller blades, so they have easy access. We have eliminated a lot of them.

(160)When the rest of it is fenced in, we defiantly won't have that because they won't want to go

(161)in there. Mrs. Cornell - Unless you have a gate right across the front of that, they will be in.

(162)They will go up jump and go down them. Lew Hayslett - They had an access to get out

(163)across your yard and the neighbors. That is why they left. Mrs. Cornell - But they still

(164)come in there. It is fair to deny us the forty feet forty five feet that we ask, and your

(165)building a hundred and eighty foot building. Lew Hayslett - I would like to. Mrs. Cornell -

(166)I would like to have my little backyard. Lew Hayslett - I am not building on your backyard.

(167)Mrs. Cornell - Your walling us in. Walt Horowski - What is the variance, actually we hook

(168)him up with them, on both sides of the property? Mrs. Cornell - On our side. Mr. Cornell -

(169)Digging up sixty feet here, the property lines, you only got sixty two feet. What is the

(170)variance. Dan Weir - If you give him the benefit of the doubt of the twenty foot side yard,

(171)on the south side you need a twenty four foot on the north side. Mr. Cornell - Then how far

(172)does he have to stay off the property line. Dan Weir - He is supposed to be forty foot of the

(173)property. Walt Horowski - Then how are you going to build a building in there. Dan Weir -

(174)Well that is what were are saying, you can't. Walt Horowski - There ain't enough land

(175)there to build that building. Mrs. Cornell - We are willing to conceive that, if you just leave

(176)our back yard. Lew Hayslett - Dan, if we went with plotting that in with the regular mini

(177)storage we could build twenty feet off, right. Mr. Cornell - You have to stay twenty feet off

(178)of our property, then how are you going to build a thirty foot building in there? Lew

(179)Hayslett - I couldn't. Mr. Cornell - No. Mrs. Cornell - Would you be willing to exchange

(180)your thirty foot building, for a forty five feet storage?

(181)Lew Hayslett - I am saying that I would have to go down and measure before I could really

(182)commit myself to what your requests are, I don't think just sitting here in this room will tell

(183)me where you want me to stop. You're still going to see the building. Mrs. Cornell -

(184)(Unclear) But we won't have the traffic going back and fourth, we won't have the

(185)noise and it will still be an open yard rather than closed in. Lew Hayslett - You won't let me

(186)put a fence up. Your closing us in with the fence. Dan Weir - I can tell you that we are

(187)going to run into more and more of this, mainly because all we have left of commercial

(188)property is redeveloped. There is no vacant land left. Anytime we do this we will run into

(189)the same type of situation, because we will be looking at building business next to residential

(190)houses. Wilma Herndon - Anyway Dan, what if it zoned commercial from down town

(191)when you hit the traffic light to the court house. Dan Weir - Actually, from Beech Street,

(192)part of Beech Street all the way through to Mulberry. In some places it is 450. (Unclear) It

(193)varies quite a bit. Walter Horowski - Well, my suggestion would be, if Louie could work

(194)out something with the Cornell's and then come back. I can't see myself approving this

(195)because the variance is too much, (Unclear). Lew Hayslett - It depends on how you look at

(196)it, I am really asking for four feet, I am only asking for feet of variance. Mrs. Cornell - No,

(197)that's no right. Dan Weir - Your asking for basically twenty four feet. Wilma Herndon -

(198)Absolutely, twenty four one way twenty another way. Lew Hayslett - All the buildings are

(199)set twenty feet of the property line, we ask for variance for the stairwell on the back

(200)(Unclear) we are asking for the same thing on this (Unclear). Mrs. Cornell - We gave you

(200)the variance back then because you only had that one piece of property, and we went along

(201)with you, you said you wanted four feet we said fine go ahead. Lew Hayslett - I agree.

(202)Mrs. Cornell - We never hassled you about anything Lew, we have always, it has always

(203)been very good between us, always. Lew Hayslett - I agree, full heartedly. Linda Nemet -

(204)The reality of it is that the way your property is zoned. Mrs. Cornell - But it is, we are

(205)residential and by rights he can't come within forty feet of our property, we are residential.

(206)Lew Hayslett - No, you are wrong. Mr. Cornell - But even at that how far do you have to

(207)stay off the property line? Dan Weir - The Zoning Board makes that determination. Mr.

(208)Cornell - But the way this is written up it would be on the property line, there is no variance

(209)at all. (Unclear) That's ten feet here that would be seventy two feet you only got sixty two

(210)feet. Dan Weir - Under normal conditions of business and it does not matter what type of

(211)business it is other than this storage facility, that can be within five feet of the property line.

(212)Now if we had a business that wanted to go in and encroach on that five foot as the Zoning

(213)Board could allow them to build on the property line. Walter Horowski - Not the Zoning

(214)Board, the Zoning Board of Appeals. T. Colucci - Let me ask you now, if the Zoning was

(215)O.K. and he could build a building that could fit the property, we would not have to be here

(216)tonight, how would you feel? Mrs. Cornell - I would feel bad about it, I really would.

(217)T. Colucci - You really don't want to build it here. Mrs. Cornell - I don't want the building

(218)in that forty which is our backyard. Mr. Cornell - Not against the building, but behind the

(219)picket fence. T. Colucci - I just wondered, I know how you feel, because years ago when

(220)Abernathy bought I lived across the street. I was almost beside myself. That became a

(221)blessing in disguise because of the lighting at night and the safety being at the dark end of

(222)town. Mrs. Cornell - We have our own lighting in our yard which lights up our whole

(223)house and our whole yard. T. Colucci - I just wondered how strongly you people felt, I

(224)know you have lived here a long time. I know that is your domain, and It don't blame you

(225)for that. But I also know Lew also know Lew's rights also. You are against him putting up

(226)the building period. (Unclear) Mrs. Cornell - No, no we said behind that picket fence he can

(227)have anything he wants. He could still have a 140 foot building there. (Mr. Cornell , Mrs.

(228)Cornell and T. Colucci all talking at once) Mrs. Cornell - We have no quarrel with that. All

(229)we want is just that open area between our picket fence and out house and behind that

(230)picket fence he can build, we will give him the variance back there, with no problem. Lew

(231)Hayslett - Even if I don't put up the privacy fence. Mr. Cornell - I'll put it up myself, don't

(232)matter. Mrs. Cornell - We want no privacy fence behind the picket fence Lew, we want no

(233)fence from the picket fence to our house that is all we are asking. Anything behind the

(234)picket fence you can put a fence up around it or anything. All we ask is that you give us that

(235)forty some feet so we have an open yard. ( Lew Hayslett, Walt Horowski and Mrs. Cornell

(236)all talking over each other) Linda Nemet - (Unclear) The time have been in there before I

(237)found this beautiful, well maintained, not even a blade of grass out of place not even a piece

(238)of paper floating anywhere, landscaped - Mrs. Cornell - That's fine, but it won't be

(239)landscaped by us, it will just be solid cement and solid building, there will be no landscaping.

(240)All the landscaping you will see will be on Cedar Street, that's all the landscaping. Linda

(241)Nemet - (Unclear) There is some area up here, I would imagine. Walter Horowski - That is

(242)for peoples backyards. Linda Nemet - You own that right, someday those houses are not

(243)going to be there. Mrs. Cornell - And by that time you probably won't be and neither will

(244)Lew. Linda Nemet - Yea, so who knows what will go on, but . (Unclear) Lew Hayslett -

(245)We will probably go like we did on the back part run curbing for two reasons, keeps the

(246)water on our property and in the winter you could slide into - so the curb serves dual

(247)purposes. Mrs. Cornell - But how far is it from the line? Lew Hayslett - I am just getting

(248)up to that, (Unclear) Walter Horowski - How are you going to build that property Lew?

(249)Lew Hayslett - It won't be high, it will approximately a foot and a half lower than what the

(250)ground is now on the west (Unclear) that is this building over here on the floor level, it will

(251)be lower it won't be higher. Walt Horowski - (Unclear) Lew Hayslett - No, (Unclear)

(252)elevations are up and down and that's another reason to put the curbing in to keep the water

(253)from flowing in on anybodyelses. T. Colucci - Any comments anybody wants to make?

(254)Mr. Cornell - That is all we've got, the only this that we've got is that we don't ant it right

(255)in our family room there. If it is back a little bit, no problem. Mrs. Cornell - Lew has

(256)rights, but please don't forget this, we should have some rights. Wilma Herndon - Excuse

(257)me Lew, is there any other way that you could put the building any further east or any other

(258)way that you could appease their feelings? Lew Hayslett - Not really because of drainage, it

(259)is almost impossible to go further east and get my water. Wilma Herndon - How about a

(260)smaller building? Lew Hayslett- Well, you know I could build a smaller building - Mrs.

(261)Cornell - But Lew, you have the other buildings back there and you didn't seem to have a

(262)drainage problem. Why would you have it closer to our house, you are going to have more

(263)of a drainage problem. Lew Hayslett - (Unclear) Wilma Herndon - With the smaller

(264)building. Lew Hayslett - Oh, you can always build a smaller building, but that doesn't take

(265)care of my purposed - Linda Nemet - (Unclear) Wilma Herndon -Dan telling us about, if we

(266)do this in another six months there is going to be another request, we have never done more

(267)that eight. Six foot variance is been the most. (Unclear) Lew Hayslett - I am asking for four.

(268)Linda Nemet - Yea, on the side yard where it says (Unclear) over here on the left (Unclear)

(269)normally it would be twenty (Unclear). (Mr. Cornell , Mrs. Cornell, Walt Horowski all

(270)talking at once ) Dan Weir - I think there is some confusion and I'll tell you it had a lot to do

(271)with our zoning text, we don't have a good zoning text. O.K. Under normal circumstances

(272)if you go to the section in here that provides for set backs under the B1. (Mrs. Cornell, Lew

(273)Hayslett, Linda Nemet all talking and it is unclear). Mrs. Cornell - Because we are on the

(274)north side and to us that is the side property, cause we are off of Chestnut street. Dan Weir

(275)- O.K. if Louie is building off of Cedar Street, that north property line would be considered

(276)the rear yard. Under the normal circumstances there would be a twenty five foot set back

(277)there. Twenty five foot rear yard. (Unclear) Dan Weir - Right, there is a five foot side yard

(278)in the commercial district. Now if he was going to have that be a Chestnut Street address,

(279)that north line would be considered a side yard. Which would allow for a five foot side

(280)back. (Unclear) Dan Weir - Right, but under the zoning regulations, if you can't go by this

(281)which applies to everything else in the entire Village, there is a whole other thing here that

(282)has special setbacks under permissive uses under the zoning code. Which really it shouldn't

(283)be under there, it should be under the setback section of the zoning text. But, it's part of the

(284)zoning code. O.K., so, being that Louie is building a specific type of a business there which

(285)is a storage warehouse business, these is applied to that. Dan Weir - O.K. which require that

(286)side yard shall be twenty feet normally for a storage facility, except where it abuts residential

(287)owners use (Unclear). But it is a residential use, in a commercial zone. See what it is, it

(288)goes according to what the property is actually being used for. If the property is zoned

(289)commercial it is defiantly a commercial piece of property, but being that the Cornell's are

(290)using it as a residence it's considered residential use in a commercial district. It gets real

(291)confusing. Basically, what we are looking at is that Louie is required to have a forty foot

(292)setback on the north property line )that abuts the Cornell's property (Unclear) sixteen foot

(293)setback so he is actually requesting a twenty four variance. Wilma Herndon - I understand.

(294)Walter Horowski - In all essence the lot is too small for what you want.

(295)Lew Hayslett - It is hard to accept the idea (Unclear) but, that is why there is a board

(296)(Unclear) Walter Horowski - The main purpose of the board is to protect the property

(297)owners. Not the builder, but the owner like him or the other neighbor. That is our main

(298)job. I can see that there is an objection, well we just can't allow it, that's all, (Unclear) I am

(299)going by the book too. Wilma Herndon - Brad do you care to comment . Walter Horowski

(300)- If we would allow it there could be a kick back and then we could be sued, I am not going

(301)to stand for that. (Unclear) Brad Childs - (Unclear ) so we are on a one sided basis here?

(302)Walter Horowski - That is right, that's right, according to the bi-laws. Brad Childs - Well I

(303)have to read them over again (Unclear). Walter Horowski - It's not what you think it is

(304)what it is. That's why somebody could misinterpret. Linda Nemet - (Unclear) Lew Hayslett

(305)- (Unclear) Linda Nemet - Where is your garage, I looked at it twice today, I am trying to

(306)visualize how far back it was from this revised diagram. (Unclear) How far back off then is

(307)(Unclear) Mr. Cornell - Our garage would be just about two and a half to three feet maybe,

(308)past the end of this building, the back of our garage. Linda Nemet - O.K. and that is where

(309)it starts? Mr. Cornell - That is where, excuse me, it would be off of the end of our garage.

(310)It would be off of the cement roadway there, that sixteen feet there. Linda Nemet -

(311)(Unclear) O.K. Mr. Cornell, Linda Nemet, and Mrs. Cornell all talking at once ) Mrs.

(312)Cornell - There would still be traffic and the in and out. Linda Nemet - It's commercial you

(313)can't stop that traffic. Mrs. Cornell - I am not trying to stop that, but I think that, we have

(314)been there for twenty years, I think we should have a little bit of right. Even though our

(315)property is commercial, but when we moved there, (Unclear) lived next to us, there was

(316)never no idea, so I think we should have some rights. If it was all for Lew, I mean were

(317)trying to compromise. You know.

(318) Dan Weir - Under the zoning codes section 1244.01, regarding the zone board, it says here

(319)the powers of the zoning board are to interpret the zoning code specifically to there and

(320)decide appeal where it is alleged that there is an error and in order requirement decision or

(321)determination made by the zoning inspector in the enforcing the zoning code permit the

(322)extent of a district or the boundary line or the district divide the lot held at single ownership,

(323)which sometime ago that was a situation that Lynn was involved with her facility up here.

(324)And see interpret provisions of the zoning code in such a way to carry out the intent purpose

(325)of the plan as shown upon a district map (Unclear) several districts accompanying and made

(326)part of the zoning code which (Unclear) and permit the following to variances, to yard

(327)regulation where there is an exceptional or unusual visible condition of the lot which

(328)condition is not generally prevalent in the neighborhood and which condition when relevant

(329)to the yard regulations to the zoning code would prevent a reasonable or sensible

(330)arrangement of buildings on the lot. Wilma Herndon - How do you interpret reasonable?

(331)(Unclear) Lew Hayslett - Are you saying, I don't know how to ask the zoning board, if I

(332)took forty feet off the building, the zoning board would give me an approval, you wouldn't

(333)have any objections? Walter Horowski - From the fence, I don't know the exact footage

(334)information yet. (Unclear) I would say forty feet might be (Unclear) ( Mr. Cornell, Mrs.

(335)Cornell, Walter Horowski ) Wilma Herndon - You're saying forty foot off of the building.

(336)Lew Hayslett - Yea. Forty feet off - Wilma Herndon - In a hundred and eighty it would be ,

(337)one hundred and forty. Walter Horowski - Approximately, I am not sure of the footage.

(338)Linda Nemet - Your building, your taking off a particular portion that have to go in

(339)increments, correct? O.K. what would be an increment? Lew Hayslett - The thing is, are

(340)you people going to accept if I had agreed to go along with their (Unclear)

(341)Wilma Herndon - Would it be logic to have Lew bring back. Walter Horowski - That's

(342)right. (Unclear) T. Colucci - Why don't we do this, why don't we vote on why we are here

(343)tonight. Wilma Herndon- I think it is better that we thrash it over a while. T. Colucci -

(344)Well, that's easy for him to go back and revamp it. Wilma Herndon - (Unclear) He just

(345)offered to just now. T. Colucci - Yea, but how do we know all the board, I mean I know

(346)that they don't want it, Walt you mentioned about (Unclear) property, there is 400 people

(347)here, that are not even here, and there is only one party against the building. You talk about

(348)protecting the property owner. Walter Horowski - That is all it takes, it only takes one.

(349)Wilma Herndon - If Lew is agreeable - Mrs. Cornell - We are the only one's effected with

(350)this line, nobody else is, and of course Abernathy they are a commercial property, so there.

(351)Walter Horowski - I have been on board for over forty years, and we have never had this

(352)before. We have had 100% all the time, haven't we. As long as you been on. T. Colucci -

(353)No. Dick Burns. T. Colucci , Linda Nemet, Brad Childs all -No. Mrs. Cornell - Are you

(354)agreeable to come down to our house and measure that, and we would go along with you.

(355)Lew Hayslett - I would measure, but I wouldn't say that I really want to cut that much off of

(356)my building. It doesn't mean a thing to you people that I paid a premium - Lew Hayslett -

(357)for that piece of property, thinking that I could use it to develop. They know what I paid

(358)for it, they know that it was way over, but that is immaterial. And I hate to lose potential of

(359)forty feet of building. Mrs. Cornell - In twenty years Lew, we have put a lot of money into

(360)building our backyard up, redoing our house, adding a room. Which we got nothing for.

(361)But we did it because it was our home. So that means as much to you, or to us as your

(362)building means to you. Lew Hayslett - But you haven't had any static from anybody of

(363)what you did. Mrs. Cornell - Only you.

(364) Lew Hayslett - No, I am not on your property that is the point. Mrs. Cornell - No, but you

(365)are trying to wall us in, your making what we tried to improve, your going to take away

(366)from us. Lew Hayslett - I am not on your property, that is what I am saying. Mrs. Cornell -

(367)You really don't care how effects us, is that what you are saying? Lew Hayslett - No, I am

(368)willing to build, you can't deny that we don't have good looking buildings and that we don't

(369)take care of them. Mrs. Cornell - But we wouldn't see, all we would see is a fence and

(370)storage garages, we would see no landscaping, nothing beautiful about a whole row of

(371)garages going down the whole side of your property. That is not very attractive to anybody.

(372)Wilma Herndon - You are in agreement Lew , to - Lew Hayslett - I would consider it, and if

(373)the board voted on it tonight, I wouldn't say that I would accept it. Walter Horowski-

(374)Well you couldn't , cause we would have to have definite the plans. Lew Hayslett - I just

(375)feel that I need so many units (Unclear) I could put them in the Village but I don't have to.

(376)I am not trying to be hardheaded about it, I have spent a lot of time figuring, measuring,

(377)drawing and shooting elevations, and its set for that piece of property. Wilma Herndon -

(378)Well, I am all for your buildings, and I still think that my biggest concern is , this actually is a

(379)twenty four foot variance, which we have never done before. I talked a little with Council

(380)people today. And we have had so much trouble with changing zoning, Changing this and

(381)changing that. Wilma Herndon - And this is the most drastic one we have ever had. That is

(382)what my concern is. I know a couple of Council people said they were very much against it,

(383)because , not because it isn't a nice building, not because it isn't private but just because we

(384)are just such a mess as far as zoning is concerned and that would just add to it. So I suggest,

(385)that if you will come up with another plan, with the idea that possibly in a few years adding

(386)on to it. Does that make sense? Lew Hayslett - Well, not really. And I think you have to

(387)understand that when we build that particular building is concreted drives and curbing and

(388)everything that goes along with it. So when you talk about possibly building onto it, I don't

(389)think it would ever happen. I either build so many feet now, and that is it or I don't build. I

(390)am not saying that I won't go along with her idea, don't get me wrong. We will have to see

(391)how much, but their saying forty feet, but that is an approximate. Mr. Cornell

(392)- An approximate, I never measured it, I am just going just by - T. Colucci - I still think we

(393)ought to take this to a vote, and then if we approve or disapprove, he has the option to

(394)come back. Wilma Herndon - Well, I don't feel comfortable voting until - Walter Horowski

(395)- I don't either. Wilma Herndon - I don't feel comfortable voting. T. Colucci - Why not?

(396)Walter Horowski - Because we are coming to another compromise that's why. Linda

(397)Nemet - That is why you're here. (Unclear) Wilma Herndon - Well were rejecting it,

(398)because Lew offered to come up with something different, (Unclear) Walter Horowski -

(399)Offer to come up with another plan, so why don't we let that alone. To satisfy both the

(400)Village and the Cornell's. T. Colucci - Assuming that it is going to be voted on tonight -

(401)Walter Horowski - We are not assuming - T. Colucci - Yes you are. Walter Horowski - No

(402)I am not, it is up to them. I am not assuming nothing. Lew Hayslett -I'm willing to go look

(403)it over, I would be crazy not to look it over. Wilma Herndon - I don't think that is asking

(404)too much. Mr. Cornell - Actually you've got, with any variance here on each side you don't

(405)have room to build that building anyway. Linda Nemet - He is stating (Unclear) Linda

(406)Nemet - This is your lot here, that building is already twenty feet, right here. Now, this

(407)section three, and he all wants all treated in section one and two whatever they are, section

(408)one is only twenty feet here, he is only asking for a four foot change. Lew )Hayslett -

(409)Exactly. Linda Nemet - So the people on Council are probably looking at numbers and are

(410)not looking at reality. Wilma Herndon - But the actual validly of it is, is there is still a

(411)twenty foot variance. Linda Nemet - Yea, but he could have the deed changed so that is all

(412)one piece of property. Wilma Herndon - Is that right? Linda Nemet - It is grandfathered in.

(413)(Unclear) So basically, he wants that new section treated as his old section, that is not

(414)unrealistic. Mr. Cornell - It can't be done the same way - Linda Nemet - Why can't he? Mr.

(415)Cornell - He don't have room. Linda Nemet - Yea he has the room. Mr. Cornell - No he

(416)don't. Linda Nemet - (Unclear) Mr. Cornell - He comes up to a sixty two foot package up

(417)there at this end. Linda Nemet - That is immaterial. What you are doing is drawing this

(418)imaginary line - Mr. Cornell - You're picking it up on that side but you will be off on the

(419)other side then. You only have sixty two feet to work with. Lew Hayslett - Abernathy is

(420)not objecting to this. Mr. Cornell - Yes. I know. Linda Nemet - People that are abutting

(421)commercial can be within 1 foot from each other. Mr. Cornell - You still don't have the

(422)room with 1 foot. You got 62 foot right here - all right you ain't a foot off the line on each

(423) side. Lew Hayslett -No you misunderstand - the building itself is 16' of the line. You can

(424)put the driveway and the overhand doesn't count as far as building are concerned. Mr.

(425)Cornell - 16' of the like? Lew Hayslett - Yea. Mr. Cornell - And you building is right in my

(426)line. Lew Hayslett - No. Mr. Cornell - Yes you are. Lew Hayslett - No. Mr. Cornell - 16

(427)and 16 equal 32 and 30 is 62 foot. (Linda Nemet, Mr. Cornell, Lew Hayslett all talking over

(428)each other regarding footage figures.) Mr. Cornell - Yea, right on the property line, then

(429)you got no bearings on property line, you're right on the property line. Lew Hayslett - I am

(430)asking for a four foot variance. Linda Nemet - His opening statement was that he wanted

(431)these treated all in the same section. ( Lew Hayslett, Mr. Cornell, Linda Nemet all talk at

(432)once .)

(433)Lew Hayslett - I am asking to build 16' of property line - this is the corner of the building

(434)down here 20' off the line. Mr. Cornell - You want a 16' drive. Lew Hayslett - No. I won't

(435)be 16' overall its 16' from building to property line. Mr. Cornell - Well I will go with the

(436)picket fence. T. Colucci - Does someone want to make a motion? Walter Horowski - Hell

(437)no. Linda Nemet - I did - We accept it as it is written. T. Colucci - Question on the

(438)motion?* (Unclear everyone talked at once) 2nd by Brad Childs. Dan Weir - The only

(439)other suggestion was that there be some sort of compromise there with the building. The

(440)best case scenario be that the Cornell's and Lew Hayslett can basically agree and everybody

(441)can be satisfied with the situation and that is the solution to the whole thing. Wilma

(442)Herndon - Suggested that try to come up with something - Walter Horowski - Agreeable.

(443)Mrs. Cornell - I think it depends upon who lives next to it, weather it is beautiful garages or

(444)what - Linda Nemet - That is a matter of interpretation but we are not here for the ascetic

(445)we are here to apply the rules to what is written or to apply your request to the rules that are

(446)written, that's our job.. Am I correct here? Walter Horowski - Yea, but you are not

(447)following the rules that are written. Linda Nemet - Well, yes I am. Because he is stating

(448)that their main point was to treat number three as number one and number two up here

(449)which allows him twenty feet. And that's not asking too much of a property owner, that is

(450)only logical - Walter Horowski - You're against the board, oh yes you are, I can feel it.

(451)Linda Nemet - I am trying to be logical about this. I mean I understand, but I don't see

(452)where a privacy fence is that bad. Mr. Cornell - But you ain't living next door to it. (Linda

(453)Nemet, Walter Horowski, Linda Nemet - That was the first thing I did, I went into debt, I

(454)put the fence up before my building up, so I wouldn't offend anymore neighbors. It cost

(455)$10,000 you are not talking nickel and dime here.

(456)Walter Horowski - Is that your problem tonight, your fence? Linda Nemet - No, What, I am

(457)trying realistic and get out of here tonight. Walter Horowski - No, you're causing too much

(458)static. Linda Nemet - Well, I don't think it is unreasonable for us to treat this piece of

(459)property, the same owner with the same intentions as this piece of property over here. If we

(460)grant him his request, he has the option to make it less than one hundred and eighty feet.

(461)That would be a compromise - Mr. Cornell - If he get's that, he ain't going to make it less, I

(462)wouldn't. He has already said he don't want it less. Wilma Herndon - I think that is our

(463)prerogative, that he offered to do it, I think we should accept Louie's, and I am sure they

(464)can come to a compromise and everybody will be happy. T. Colucci - You have brought up

(465)an interesting point, Now, Lew is a vicious man, and he gets rejected tonight, nothing atops

(466)him from tearing that house down. He is within the rules, so you see. Mrs. Cornell - If Lew

(467)would not have told us last summer that he would only bring it up to the fence, but he did

(468)say that. Linda Nemet - Yea, but that is verbal and that's - Mrs. Cornell l the point is that I

(469)trusted Lew and I had faith in him, he was willing to compromise with us. Walter

(470)Horowski - He willing to compromise but she isn't, she had a problem so she is throwing

(471)sour grapes. Patricia Fisher - Guys, we are just going back and fourth and arguing and we

(472)are not getting anywhere . Walter Horowski - You got that right. Patricia Fisher -We

(473)have a first and a second and a second motion. We will go on just the way it is , the

(474)decision whatever the vote is, if it is for or whatever, we will go from there. Because we are

(475)not getting nowhere, I am not for it or anything like that, I am a bias party here. Patricia

(476)Fisher - Roll Call - Nemet, yea; Horowski, nay, Herndon, nay, Childs, yea, Colucci,

(477) yea. We got our decision - we have two nay's and three yea's . Mrs. Cornell - We

(478)thank all of you very much. Lew Hayslett - Thank You. Meeting closed.